Concerns
I have typical (from what I’ve read) concerns about screen controls (TV,
videogame, computer) and food controls. My children are very young (3, 1 and in
utero :) and so it isn’t a huge issue yet, but this is primarily due to lack of
exposure (which goes a bit against one of the interesting discussions I read
about a “big life” at AlwaysUnschooled). My daughter (3) went to preschool
temporarily (yuck).
This email might be too unorganized and stream-of consciousness, but maybe it
will resonate with others who went through (or are going through) these feelings
on their journey. Anyway, I read some of the typical days of unschoolers and
the thought of sitting around watching TV all day or playing video games all day
just freaks me out. I know this isn’t always the case, but it is the case on
the majority of the “what unschooling looks like at our house today” posts I
have read look like. I have gone through this in my head repeatedly. Why does
it bother me? Would it bother me if they were reading or doing math problems?
Yes. A largely sedentary lifestyle would bother me. And something about the
idea that teachers and parents shouldn’t teach, but that TV and videogames
should (or be learned from) seems odd to me — although I totally get (and
passionately) the reasoning behind avoiding institutionalized school. I realize
some of these are “my” issues…I just don’t
enjoy sitting around much at all, not a big TV person, sports fan, etc.
Likewise, on the food controls, again, not really an issue for us in our rather
organic, vegetarian household (also breastfeeding) thus far since the kids are
young (I do not restrict at parties, etc., but have explained why I don’t eat
meat to the older one), but I could see it becoming an issue very easily. I
know one friend who is leaning toward unschooling and her daughter has no limits
on anything unless it directly impacts safety (e.g. car seat) and at 3-1/2 she
is significantly overweight, has 2 cavities, and basically watches reruns of
princess movies for 10 hours a day. Her mom can barely get her to go to the
park (and does not force her). Now, maybe the weight and cavities are genetic,
but I can’t help but think it might have a bit to do with all the cookies and
candy and the utter lack of fruits, veggies, etc. in her diet. And I agree, she
might be learning tons from repeating princess movies. Who knows? Still,
anecdotally, we can all say, well “Uncle Joe
smoked, drank, and never ate a vegetable and lived to 102!”, but I am fairly
convinced that, except for a few lucky, genetically blessed individuals, diet
and lifestyle play a strong role in one’s health. With my friend’s little girl,
I also think that her diet might be causing her to be low energy, etc. All of
this, of course, makes mom’s life easier in some ways, because her daughter will
literally sit there all day, has few tantrums, etc., but I am honestly happier
that my daughter does lots of other things and eats a healthy, varied diet, even
though that means we have some “rules.” Anyway, we all have anectdotal examples
of someone who does this or doesn’t do that, but those don’t convince me (and I
can poke all sorts of holes into my own anectdotal story above!). Research I’ve
read critically (as in looking at who did the study, biases, etc.) does
influence me, I admit, and a lot of what I’ve seen in research and in life has
led me to the idea that very young
children generally do not make healthy choices when given total freedom.
These are my rules currently (will not be surprised or offended by attacks on
these):
Food: 5 colors on the plate at every meal (we make a game of it, and she counts
and corrects me if there are only 4, etc.). Try one bite of everything on your
plate (because “sometimes it takes our tummies and our tongues lots of tastes to
learn to like something new,” which she has always been fine with). Kids do not
have to finish their plates or anything like that. We let our tummies tell us
when we are hungry or full. There is a snack shelf in the fridge at her height
full of snacks (all things she loves, but all pretty healthy) that she can
access whenever she wants. We do not have the TV on during mealtimes. On
sweets, I’m using a “don’t offer, don’t refuse” policy, but I will try to
distract her sometimes at parties, etc., and I also explain to her why I eat the
way I do. So while she has freedom throughout the day, I realize this isn’t
true freedom, because our household is quite restricted compared to other
households. Also, she gets to help shop, but this
is at Whole Foods, so again, quite restrictive and not really total freedom.
TV/computer: She has 1/2 hour magnets (like money) with an “allowance” (not
attached to rewards or punishments) of screen time per week (currently 8 hours)
that she “spends” on TV and sometimes the computer. She can spend them however
she wants, but has only been exposed to certain shows thus far, so only requests
those. Pretty much most shows she is interested in right now would be
considered “educational,” but that is just the trend right now in the media
directed towards little ones. She does watch a few things that aren’t
specifically categorized as educational (e.g. Cinderella) as well. We have
always put movies on in different languages for fun (French and Spanish), so she
watches in whichever of 3 languages she is in the mood for. She watches the
most TV in the house (I watch 2-3 hours a week, hubby even less, my 1yo watches
almost none).
We spend a lot of time outdoors and she goes to classes for things she is
interested in (Expressercise which is a ballet/creative movement thing),
swimming, etc. I started my 3yo in some stuff before she was too little to
really show an “interest”, just for fun, and some she has continued and others
not. My 1yo goes to swimming (both love water and baths) and a sibling
gymnastics class (fun for the 3 of us). Again, not really totally unschooling,
because these are more directed by me than by them (I don’t think my 1 yo would
have said, “hey Mom, let’s go swimming!” LOL).
I am happy with the choices I have made (although constantly examining them and
the reasons for them because I know I am not perfect). I honestly have one of
the only 3yos I know who eats such a varied diet and requests veggies randomly.
She also does not ask for extra TV time…just when it is done, it is done. I
do not think without the “rule” she would have tried many of these foods
because, like most toddlers, she gravitated toward beige foods (I know so many
kids who only eat beige J foods, I cannot even count LOL). I also think the
screen time “rules” have helped me stay creative, because I don’t have that
crutch to fall back on (not that others use it as a crutch…just saying for me
personally, it would make life A LOT easier if we sat together and watched TV a
lot more than we do — physically, monetarily, and in creative expenditures
LOL).
So, these things go against the unschooling philosophy, I know, and I’m not
entirely sure if that is something I can (or choose) to fix. I believe strongly
in parts (though I know as a philosophy the parts are inextricable), but not in
other parts. Therein lies my confusion. If I do not subscribe to all of these
things (and after all of the reading and searching the archives, still have not
been swayed on the food and screen time issues), does this mean I am a “relaxed
eclectic” homeschooler and not quite an unschooler, or is there an unschooler
group that uses some limits, etc.?
Although this might seem like a lot of topics in one, really, the question is
one: Where do I fit if I don’t believe in school (at home or in an
institution), but I do believe in some limits and education about food,
television, etc.?
***
>>>> I have typical (from what I’ve read) concerns about screen
controls (TV, videogame, computer) and food controls.>>>>>
I think we all have (or had) issues with one or several of those.
And don’t forget bedtime. That’s another one! LOL!
>>>>>A largely sedentary lifestyle would bother me.>>>>>
It’s important to me also, that my kids are physical. Not just for
the obvious benefits but my two older ones have some emotional
issues they struggle with and being physical really helps them. What
I do is make sure I buy fun physical stuff for them to use whenever
they want. We have (and your kids may be young for some of these) a
pogo stick, trampoline, roller blades, dirt bike, bicycles,
skateboards, trampoline, gigantic playset, swimming pool, jump
ropes, skip-its, frisbees, footballs, basketballs, hula hoops and a
ton more that I’m forgetting. The other thing I do is make sure I’m
being physical, on my own AND with them. We walk about 2 miles most
mornings also. I usually walk and they ride their bikes.
>>>>>>>I know one friend who is leaning toward unschooling and her
daughter has no limits on anything unless it directly impacts safety
(e.g. car seat) and at 3-1/2 she is significantly overweight, has 2
cavities, and basically watches reruns of princess movies for 10
hours a day.>>>>>>
What you described is not unschooling.
>>>>So, these things go against the unschooling philosophy, I know,
and I’m not entirely sure if that is something I can (or choose) to
fix. I believe strongly in parts (though I know as a philosophy the
parts are inextricable), but not in other parts. Therein lies my
confusion. If I do not subscribe to all of these things (and after
all of the reading and searching the archives, still have not been
swayed on the food and screen time issues), does this mean I am
a “relaxed eclectic” homeschooler and not quite an unschooler, or is
there an unschooler group that uses some limits, etc.? Although this
might seem like a lot of topics in one, really, the question is
one: Where do I fit if I don’t believe in school (at home or in an
institution), but I do believe in some limits and education about
food, television, etc.? >>>>>>
Unschooling means not doing school at home. This list discusses
radical unschooling which extends that trust into other areas of
life. If you’re looking for an unschooling list/group/board that
only discusses unschooling as in not-doing-school but does not
extend that trust into other areas, I’m sure there has to be some
out there. I bet some of the members here can help you out with
that. But even if you do find another group, don’t unsub
here….keep reading because like you said, something about it
attracts you to it. And don’t worry so much about the name you use.
***
<EM>A list designed for those new to the philosophy of unschooling.
Ask experienced unschoolers all those niggling questions, and find
out how unschooling works in real families.
If you’re familiar with John Holt’s work, but unsure of how to begin
or what an unschooling day really looks like, this is a place for
you to discuss,question, ponder and become deeply familiar with
natural learning and how it affects our entire lives. From parenting
issues to learning from the whole wide world and beyond, come
explore the issues that unschooling families have dealt with in the
past and how to get beyond “school-think” to a joyful unschooling
lifestyle!</EM>
If what you say is true, either the group description and name are
out of date, or your definition of this group as ‘radical
unschooling’ is overstated and will tend to exclude people. Anybody
care to weigh in here?
Also, if this *IS* a ‘radical unschooling’ list, by your own
definition extending trust to other areas of life beyond education,
and if we extend trust to 3 year old girls to pursue their interests
which consists of watching 10 hours of princess movie reruns… how
is what this mother doing….not unschooling?
I’m not a radical unschooler. Like the OP above, I do have
certainly structure in my family. I’m not sure I’m an unschooler at
all. But I lean that direction MORE than I lean any other direction,
and that’s why I’ve come here. Beyond that, I don’t think I dare say
more about myself and my home life. I would not find it encouraging
to be told “You’re not X or Y enough for this list.”
I am genuinely bewildered, which may make me come across
belligerent. Would somebody help me out?
***
I’m not sure who said it…maybe Sandra, but if a child is watching 10
hours of the same movie everyday….why are they choosing that? What
was their other choice? There’s nothing wrong with watching 10 hours of
tv…but for a 3-1/2 year old to choose that everyday, there’s not
enough being introduced in their lives. The poster said that the mother
doesn’t mind that she watches 10 hours a day because it gets the child
out of her hair (or something like that). That’s not unschooling. I’m
not sure what it is. Unschooling is helping your child…bringing as
much of the world to them as you can. Where is the mother during these
10 hours. There with her, talking to her, hanging out with her….from
what she posted, probably not. I think a lot of people think
unschooling is just leaving your child alone to figure things out for
themselves and that’s not the unschooling I know. When I was new to
unschooling and was reading at unschooling.com and reading posts by Ren
& Joyce & Pam & Mary & Sandra, I read about the ways they opened the
world up for their kids and when their kids chose to watch tv for 10
hours, it wasn’t because they were escaping or had nothing else to
choose from.
***
If what you say is true, either the group description and name are
out of date, or your definition of this group as ‘radical
unschooling’ is overstated and will tend to exclude people. Anybody
care to weigh in here?
-=-=-=-
Sure.
It’s a beginners’ unschooling list run by a bunch of radical
unschoolers. Because of that, many of the conversations run into
radical unschooling. It simply makes more sense—plus unschooling
works better when the children know their [arents trust in in ALL
ways/areas of their learning.
-=-==-.
Also, if this *IS* a ‘radical unschooling’ list, by your own
definition extending trust to other areas of life beyond education,
and if we extend trust to 3 year old girls to pursue their interests
which consists of watching 10 hours of princess movie reruns… how
is what this mother doing….not unschooling?
-=-=-=-
Radical unschooling DOES mean allowing a child to pursue her own
interests. BUT…most unschooling parents of three year olds would,
themselves, be DOing more than 10 hours of TV. It DOES happen that
children watch hour after hour of TV, but many children will chose the
TV when there’s nothing else available. It really depends on WHY the
child is choosing ten hours of TV over, say, a trip to the park or
baking cookies or bouncing on the trampoline.
It’s the *why* behind the action (or inaction).
-=-=-=-
I’m not a radical unschooler. Like the OP above, I do have
certainly structure in my family. I’m not sure I’m an unschooler at
all. But I lean that direction MORE than I lean any other direction,
and that’s why I’ve come here. Beyond that, I don’t think I dare say
more about myself and my home life. I would not find it encouraging
to be told “You’re not X or Y enough for this list.”
I am genuinely bewildered, which may make me come across
belligerent. Would somebody help me out?
-=-=-=-
Our goal here is to help you *get* to unschooling—to get over your
fears of letting go and trusting. NO ONE has to believe what we say or
do what we suggest. YOU get to choose!
***
Yes I would question if the parents are engaged in their children. My son
can be completely engrossed in a movie or video game and hear me open the
door to go to the garden and ZIP he is right there. He’ll give up
Scooby-Doo for gardening. Not because he doesn’t like Scooby-Doo but
because gardening is more interesting than Scooby-Doo and he can always go
back to Scooby-Doo. After we water the plants, turn the compost bin and
make a careful inspection of our plants looking for sprouting seeds and
critters that shouldn’t belong then we can go back to do other things.
Usually given the option of tv or “something else” (cooking, gardening,
reading, creating, going to the park, etc.) my kids will choose “something
else” than tv.
***
It seems odd that a 3 1/2 yo would choose to sit for 10 hours
watching movies so I’d guess there’s some other factor.
*But* at 3 my daughter did like repetition, as I’ve heard many 3 yos
like. And she did watch 101 Dalmations over and over, often several
times in one day. It was what she (and apparently many 3 yos) need
and she got whatever she needed from that stage and moved on.
While I’m a big proponent of free access to food, I’d also encourage
people to make nutritious food easy if not easier than less
nutritious. Often kids grab snacky foods because they’re easy. It’s
easier to grab a cookie than wash a carrot. But a platter of carrot
sticks and something to dip them if delivered to kids can look a
whole lot better.
Also I wouldn’t necessarily keep a steady supply of cookies “just
because”. Bring in what the kids ask for. To put that in perspective
of “free access to food” I don’t keep a steady supply of asparagus. I
just buy it when someone asks. I do buy berries when they’re on sale
without being asked because I know they’re a favorite. I do keep a
steady supply of Dove chocolates without being asked because we enjoy
them instead of a larger dessert. I don’t keep a steady supply of
yogurt because it goes in and out of the list of favorites.
***
Are you interested in something? do you like to bake, run, paint,
read Victorian novels, travel, kayak, meditate, watch Sean Connery
movies, grow begonias…? If you have a life, it will be natural to
bring bits of that life into the house. The kids may take some, may
leave some, may head off into knights because they caught a bit of
you watching Sean Connery as King Arthur in First Knight. Or, they
may not. You are a *facilitater* – the same way you made safe spaces
for toddlers to toddle and cleared the yard for 4 yr olds to run
free, that’s the same attitude as they get older – provide transport
to the bookstore, art supply store, dojo, park, grocery store, dance
studio, wherever. Mention that you saw thus and such concert, movie,
play and thought they might be interested. Check out local papers
for soccer leagues or dance studios or fishing tournaments.
Put it in another context: remember how it is when you start dating
someone? you study that person – their likes, dislikes, passions,
etc. If you find that this other person loves the TransSiberian
Orchestra and you notice that the group will be in the next town
over for a concert, you mention it and see if yor sweetie would like
to get tickets for it (or maybe arrange for the tickets as a
surprise). Same with your kids – become students of your kids -
their likes, dislikes, passions, etc and find ways to help them in
those pursuits. And bring your own interests to the table too – we
have gotten National Geographic for almost the entire 12 1/2 years
we’ve been married because DH likes it. When DS was about 2 1/2 he
found a map of Antarctica that came out of the magazine and was
enthralled – he carried that map around, practically slept with it,
for days, asking questions about things and drinking it all in. He’s
now almost 8 and he still loves maps and globes and finding places.
For a while, his idea of a great game was for me to name a country
and he had to find it on a flat world map. Then he’d name a place
and I had to find it. He knew some of the larger/most recognizable
places (such as China, Russia, Canada, US, Brazil, Antarctica,
Australia) by location and shape before he could really read. At the
last summer Olympics, he got intrigued by one particular team and
looked up where that country was on the globe. We never -intended-
that the magazine or watching the Olympics be a ‘teaching tool’ -
those are just parts of our lives that we bring into the house.
