TV
I have a question about the “detox” period. We have been “homeschooling” with
charter schools and have now chosen to leave it behind and truly unschool.
After lurking on this list for a while, I’m seeing how I have to (want to)
change a lot about how I’ve been interacting with my 2 sons (12 and 8), beyond
the school/learning issue.
Having just lifted the restrictions on food and TV (I was one of those people
who thought television was the Source for All Evil, followed by sugar
consumption), my sons are glued to TV for hours now. Please tell me this is a
phase and they’ll grow bored with it! Has that happened to others? I’m looking
for support in this process of trusting my wonderful children, even as they go
off the deep end with zoning out to TV.
***
We are going through the same thing here. My son, 6, loves to watch TV. After
leaving the restriction of what and how much he can watch behind, when we are
home he is in front of the TV. So much so, that he does not want to leave it to
eat. He has missed meals to continue to watch. This has been going on for
about 2 months now. But I have noticed in the last few days a change. When he
gets up in the morning now, he wants to play on the computer instead of going
straight for the TV. He played for an hour and a half this am. I am active
with a homeschool group, so we are out of the house 3-4 days a week. I see that
he is learning from what he watches, and trust that he is getting what he needs
from it at this time in his life. I am confident that this will pass, as he
finds new things that interest him, and I try to make available things that I
think he would like. I am learning to trust that he knows what is best for him
and he is learning to trust that we will not impose
restrictions on him.
***
That’s sad….can you bring his food to the TV? We
have trays that make eating in front of the TV an
almost mess-free occurance….
***
We actually worked out some ideas that work for everyone. My husband wants to
have sit down dinners, so we either tape the shows so he can watch what he
missed later, or we agreed to do dinner later sometimes. This way it is not at
the same time as the shows that are very important to him. Also, I do let him
eat dinner in front of the TV. He likes to do this in my bedroom, on my bed, so
it is when the food is not something that is going to make a huge mess on my
bed. Spaghetti and soups just do not fly in my room, but pizza and sandwiches
are great. My ds is happy with the solutions we have come up with, but has yet
to watch anything we have taped. Too much on when he goes back to the TV to
watch what was missed. I guess just knowing that if he wanted to he could is
enough for him!!
***
Thinking “how can that be sad. It was his choice to miss the meal”.
It just hit me how very sad it is!! He missed a meal because we had
not come up with a solution that was meeting his needs. He felt he
had no other option but to miss a meal. As a family we have come up
with other options to this problem, that do not involve my son
missing a meal.
***
Yes, they do eventually slow down on the TV when they feel confidant that
they can turn it off and won’t come back to find it limited again.
As for “potentially destructive and disruptive” when kids are given the
choice between doing things they like and things they don’t like, they
choose things they like. When kids are give the choice between things they
are allowed to do and things they aren’t allowed to do, “aren’t allowed’
looks intriguing.
Have you ever seen a sign on a boring door that says “No Admittance” and
felt the urge to open it? If there were no sign you’d not give the door a
second glance. But that “No Admittance” sign makes it intriguing, like
there’s something special back there that you can’t have.
That’s what happens when things are labeled “not allowed”.
There are so many things I could feel justified in preventing my daughter
from doing because they might be damaging. But she hasn’t been damaged by
things that people fear (TV, video games) and hasn’t chosen things that are
damaging.
She’s 12 and has always had the freedom to choose.
***
I never said I “feared” anything. I also never said anything about
not being “allowed” to do anything. My inquiry was (and remember…I
was not the original poster re: TV, I was thinking more about
limits…is that the wrong term?… in general) “things that might be
not so good for them (too much TV might be an example…it’s not
really an issue for us, I don’t have any TV problems…another may be
sugar intake, staying up too late…running into the street???)or
something that is potentially destructive or disruptive (Examples of
this might be painting on the living room wall or picking all the
flowers in the neighbors garden or waking up houseguests a 6oclock in
the morning by running into the bedroom and jumping on the
bed….these things, painting and picking flowers and jumping on the
bed are all things I have no problems with…but implemeting limits
on how and when they should be done seems appropriate and that’s what
I mean by disruptive or destrictive). I ask these questions because
I have a very free-spirited out of the box kind of kid (he would
paint himself green and run down the street naked if I let him…ok,
he has done this…really…)…many times the way he does things are
a bit out of the ordinary and I struggle with letting him be who his
is and showing him some basic aspects of social appropriateness. Is
there a balance here? Am I using the wrong language when I say
limits?…do some kids need a little extra guidance when it comes to
these things? My 2 yo seems to already naturally get the “being
aware of other people and things” and my 5yo is more in his own word
(more implusive and moves to the beat of his own drum). OK, I’m
rambling but I guess what I am looking for is a little advice on
keeping this unique personality intact….I don’t want him to conform
to the world necessarily, I want the world to accept him as he
is…and since working with him is more feasable than working with
the whole world, I want to help him figure out ways to be accepted,
KWIM? I really don’t want to get into a big semantics exchange here
either so I hope I don’t get an anwer back like “why does the world
have to accept him?”….the “whole” world doesn’t. I just want him
to have the skills to avoid his and other people’s frustration in
some social situations. Well, I really went off here…will be
interesting to see the responses I get…lol
***
Examples of this might be painting on the living room wall
****We’re about to rip down all of the old paneling in this house
and I can’t wait to see again all of the paintings that Laurie and
her friends did when they were young. They covered EVERY wall in the
house with paints, crayons, chalk. One niece was so schooled that
all she could think of to put on the wall was math problems.
I ask these questions because I have a very free-spirited out of
the box kind of kid (he would paint himself green and run down the
street naked if I let him…ok, he has done this…really…)
*****I love it!
I just want him to have the skills to avoid his and other people’s
frustration in some social situations.
*****I didn’t make Laurie say “please, thank you” etc and that would
really burn some of the southern ladies up. I can’t remember Laurie
being frustrated by other people not accepting her the way she was;
she seemed oblivious to their opinions until she got much older.
Laurie was also very precocious in her speaking and for some reason
that irked adults. She didn’t want to discuss toys with adults; she
wanted to discuss whatever the adults were talking about. On her
second birthday she didn’t want to wear the pretty little dress that
Mom got her and sit ‘like a lady’, she wanted to wear her jeans and
boots and listen to rock n roll.
I guess none of these things is really disruptive (unless you’re my
mom) but at those times I made sure I didn’t appear to be upset (and
I wasn’t upset) by anything she did. I let the other adults know
that what she did, how she did it and when was fine with me. I
supported her uniqueness.
***
<<<but implementing limits
on how and when they should be done seems appropriate and that’s what
I mean by disruptive or destrictive). …. Is
there a balance here? Am I using the wrong language when I say
limits?…
I really don’t want to get into a big semantics exchange here>>>
I don’t want to disappoint, but I am going to look at some semantics here -
NOT because I think Wendy is using the “wrong” language in this post or
asking a wrong headed question in any way at all, but because of a larger
issue of how we as Unschoolers are beyond a lot of modern parenting and its
discourses.
I want to suggest the idea that in the wider parenting world the words
“implementing limits”, or more usually “setting limits”, is a buzz word
phrase – politically correct jargon of supposedly aware parenting, which can
often be translated into “controlling the children’s behavior”. “Limits” can
mean “what parents tolerate in their comfort zone”. Similarly, the term
“consequences” is often a euphemistic way of saying “punishments” – even
though time outs or grounding or doing specific related chores (like washing
the walls off for example) are orders of magnitude better than old fashioned
strategies like screamed insults, shame and guilt, spanking, being sent to
bed with or without supper, or being sent off to military school or
ensconced in a nunnery.
Lists that discuss unschooling often include so much that is about changing
your parenting on a deep thought level, so using these part-time buzz words
may spark unexpected semantics based responses. From the TV series based on
the Buddhist folk tale “Monkey”: “With our thoughts we make the world”. With
(only) our words, we make our thoughts known online.
Another modern parenting idea is “Give your children choices”. How could
this be problematic for Unschoolers? Well, I recall an episode of Oprah
where a very nice modern mother was enthusing about the various strategies
she uses for ease of parenting and family life – her big tool was “giving
kids choices” that included which color of jacket to put on. For anyone who
has been around unschooling for even a little while, it just looks like
manipulation – hmmm, actually it *is* manipulation (and proud of it!). The
choices aren’t real, they are “practice choices” in situations that are
resoundingly trivial, because the idea is to fool the kid into behaving a
certain way, and any alternative outside of the two or three parent
sanctioned ideas is not “given”. Again, a huge improvement over no choices
at all and fear based obedience, but not as enlightened as unschooling can
be. Gosh, it sounds smug to use “enlightened” but it still seems the best
word.
Unschoolers are usually on a path towards real choices that their children
“make” rather than being “given” or “permitted”. Sometimes this means
gritting your teeth and biting your tongue. Occasionally these real choices
are likely to have crummy (but presumably not life or limb threatening)
results, especially when the children are young. For most “ordinary parents”
the teeth gritting over bad choices comes when the youngster is grown up or
in their late teens and is suddenly “given” (translation: mandatory
acceptance) responsibilities and adult behavior expectations. We get to
practice gritting for way longer. ;)
One quantum leap in thinking is letting go of the “giving” of choices.
Instead it becomes about “creating” an environment and lifestyle where the
children, and indeed the adults in the family, have the opportunity to make
real choices, or dither about making them. A principles-based lifestyle,
instead of a hierarchy.
It becomes about letting go of the need to ensure that they are “learning
from their mistakes” and not have every bad result elucidated for them, as
if they were too stupid to notice that they felt cold when they didn’t
choose any jacket. (Just quietly bring the favorite along, or keep a spare
in the car without comment). When consequences are seamlessly obvious, they
need not be mentioned.
This created life that follows this leap lets the thought processes behind
choices be unsullied by the suspicion that the parents are trying to manage
and control (and hey they could be bullshitting just like all those times
they made me wear a coat and I was too hot). It becomes about a parent not
being emotionally attached to the free advice they are able to give when
asked, by children who actually trust their parents to express only truthful
and plausible misgivings, and help brainstorm around those problems.
It means that the parents get to own and express their own varying comfort
levels, without the rigid concept of “setting limits”. It means that the
children don’t have to constantly look for the delineation of those limits
and test their validity.
***
You’re absolutely right on with this comment. My daughter who is 11 and
does attend public school was having a terrible time with my ridgedness
before I saw the light. She tested everything and life was miserable. When
I decided to give Unschooling a shot I let go of all of that and the changes
in her are remarkable. Even though she doesn’t have the benefits of
Unschooling full time, like her brothers’) the mindset still works wonders.
I let her make the choices I, in the past, were afraid to let her make. I
mean has anyone really gotten frostbite during a ride in a heated car to
school which is 3 minutes away. REALLY! We give her allowance without
chores. No mandatory chores, there will be no curfew. The only thing that
scares me about the no curfew thing is, and maybe some of you with older
children can help my thinking on this one), what if something happens, how
do you know? If you ask a child to be in at 11:00 and they’re still not
home at 12:00am then you know something could be wrong. You know all those
things that could happen, maybe in a long shot, but still could
happen,(raped,abused,in a ditch somewhere bleeding from a car accident, you
know the thoughts of a worried mom) Wouldn’t you feel terrible if your
child was missing and you didn’t report it because you didn’t give them a
curfew? Do they call and check in? Is there an agreed upon time before
the child leaves and then if something comes up they call and say “hey mom
having too much fun won’t be home for ….? I’ve let go of so much and even
though I don’t need to worry too much about the curfew thing just yet I want
to straighten it out in my head before we get there.
***
That’s exactly what we did and still do. If Laurie or I go out
and we’re going to be later than we thought, we call and say so. I
once forgot to call her when I arrived safely at my destination and
she gave me a good chewing out. I don’t forget now!
***
No mandatory chores, there will be no curfew. The only thing that
scares me about the no curfew thing is, and maybe some of you with older
children can help my thinking on this one), what if something happens, how
do you know? If you ask a child to be in at 11:00 and they’re still not
home at 12:00am then you know something could be wrong. You know all those
things that could happen, maybe in a long shot, but still could
happen,(raped,abused,in a ditch somewhere bleeding from a car accident, you
know the thoughts of a worried mom) Wouldn’t you feel terrible if your
child was missing and you didn’t report it because you didn’t give them a
curfew? Do they call and check in?
***
If there abducted they can’t call on the cell phone. If they are in some
ditch bleeding to death from a head wound again, can’t use cell phone. I
know this sound paranoid, but I want to give her the freedom with some
knowledge of what time she is wanting to come home. I probably shouldn’t
even worry about it as it is when she goes to dances I give her my cell
phone and she must call me 3 times to let me know what’s happening. It’s
fun listening and talking to her and I’m so glad she wants to share her fun
times with me. Maybe she will continue to do this and there won’t be any
need to worry.
***
No, but you could call HER if you’re worried!
If you get no answer, then you KNOW something’s wrong—-and you’re ahead of
the game! <g>
I’m guessing that <almost> every time you’ll call, she’ll be fine. It’s at
least peace of mind when she answers.
Cameron (16) calls me regularly—and especially when he’s later than he
said he would be. Sometimes he calls in just to check on *me*! <g> Sometimes I
call him to pick up a gallon of milk on his way home.
If she doesn’t feel the need to hide or sneak, she’ll probably be more than
comfortable calling you just to let you know she’s OK.
***
Sounds like your 5yo and my 5yo would have BIG FUN together! All
three of my kids are free-spirited, but my 5yo seems to really revel
in finding the messiest, most destructive activities possible. He is
truly the kind of kid that if he’s left unattended for 5 minutes
he’ll be into something. I know, you’re saying “Duh! Don’t leave him
unattended!” But there are times when it can’t be helped – I have my
other two kids, plus I babysit my baby nephew, so sometimes I have
to go upstairs to put the baby to bed, etc.
Most of the conflicts come in when he gets into (and usually
destroys) someone else’s stuff, from chewing up his brother’s
Bionicle pieces to spraying the hose from the backyard into an open
window and soaking the carpet.
We surmised that his “mischief-making” was a cry for attention, so
dh and I do our best to give him lots of one-on-one time, but
sometimes I think it has more to do with curiosity or just plain
inability to see the consequences of his actions (he is only 5 after
all-I don’t expect him to see “the big picture”). I must admit that
some of the things he comes up with are really very creative in
addition to being destructive, so I certainly don’t want to squash
this part of his personality.
Do any of you have any ideas on how to redirect his creativity and
curiosity and save my house and belongings?
***
Every time I have these feelings I turn to my husband for ideas on how to
save the house and he says don’t worry about it we’ll redecorate later. He
is also really good at derailing some purchases that I would have made and
regretted such as antique furniture and expensive sheets. These things
really can wait and for the existing house I have the benefit of being
married to a contractor so fixing things up don’t cost us as much as they do
most people. My 5 year old is exactly like yours and I’ve learned to
embrace what he does and just let my hang ups go. He makes me laugh so much
more than he makes me frustrated,(which I tended to forget when I was really
mad about something).
Not much help probably, but your not alone.
***
Laurie, who was also glued to (at different times) tv,
computer, books, Barbie dolls in pioneer clothing, music, etc would
forget to eat when involved with her BBS. I’d fix a plate of veggies
or salad stuff and set it in front of her and walk away. Sometimes
she wouldn’t even notice me setting it down, but eventually she’d
see it and eat.
***
I may be no help, because I worship my TV :)
But I would suggest to anyone with TV problems….TIVO
is TV of the gods. Pause live TV, go eat, come back
and not miss a thing. Set it to record Kim Possible
EVERY DAY so you have them all on file and can pull
them up and watch your favorite, even when it’s not
on. I know it’s very liberating, not to have to worry
about the time and to be able to watch your favorite
show any time, day or night….Plus, if you have a
special interest in, say, ancient egypt or insects or
what have you, you put that name in and do a search,
and you can record all the shows about that as well!
So, think about it ;)
(I in no way profit from the TIVO company, lol)
***
I second Tivo! I think a lot of the reason kids get glued to the TV after
restrictions is that they feel like if they don’t watch it *now* it will be
gone.
(You’ll have to check with you cable/satellite provider to see if they
supply access to the programing. In our area it’s only $5 extra and it’s an
awesome deal. You’ll also need to buy the Tivo box. Ours only holds 30 hours
(which sounds like a lot but isn’t even for us that keep deleting after we
watch) but it was only $100. And it’s more convenient to save to tape from
the Tivo box.)
You can also buy entire seasons of some shows (and more coming out all the
time.)
***
We really should get paid for this <G> I LOVE TiVo. Personally, I don’t like tv.
The noise alone pushes me right to the brink of insanity. ;-) Given my
irritation by the television, dh was quite surprised when I suggested a TiVo. I
must say it’s the best television related purchase ever. I really despised
feeling like what we needed to do was on hold because there was a “we HAVE to
watch this!” show on. Now, just hit record. Freedom! I love it. Plus ff through
all the commercials is a major plus.
***
We have trays that we eat on, and they have lips and
hold a variety of goop, even if it’s spilled and
played in….
Plus, is a meal is going to be super-duper-messy,
like…say, BBQ ribs or…well, whatever, then a bath
towel goes beneath the tray, and that holds any
splatters that made it off the tray.
We almost exclusively eat in bed, or on the floor of
the play room, and this keeps beds and floors clean.
As far as crumbs go, we just sweep out the bed before
retiring at night…
***
I understand what you’re going through, believe me! I was raised without tv,
convinced that it was this awful form of communication that rotted your brain.
HMPHF!
My mind has obviously been changed.:)
A few years ago, when we went through the whole “detox” period, I thought my
kids would never do anything else. It was mainly my oldest, who had the most
controls in his life, that had problems walking away.
It took about a year…
And you know what?
He’s still a bright, creative, wonderful individual…tv did nothing to alter
that. I figured a year of tv as a child, was better than as an adult! Now his
life is full of many different topics of interest, tv holds no power over him,
but he still enjoys it immensely.
He’s probably learned more from tv, than any other form of communication.
The best advice I got when dealing with my fears and frustrations, was to sit
down and watch it with them! To get interested in the shows they like, talk
about them, BE together. It showed my kids I was not the enemy where tv was
concerned, and it opened up their world to me in a new way. It was another thing
to connect over, not create conflict.
The other thing that I had to learn, was to make good options available more
readily. If tv is the most interesting thing available in the house, then it
just shows how intelligent the child is for choosing the most attractive option!
So I tried to make sure we had some bubbly, fun things going on here and there,
to make myself feel better. They gravitated back to the tv fairly quick though.
The other thing that helped me, was to see the tv as a learning opportunity, not
something I needed to get them away from.
Once I saw the whole wide world as potential learning tools, I no longer felt
stressed when they needed a lot of television. It was just another way they were
learning. And learn they did!
So….hang in there. Trust that your child is doing exactly what they need to
for the time being. I can honestly say, 3.5 years later, that it was one of the
best things I ever did. It has led to more joyful unschooling, better
relationships and much learning. I have learned more than anyone probably, about
letting go of my need to control and what a wonderful tool television really can
be.
***
We are huge tv watchers, we have 3 right now, used to have 6. :)
we have vcrs, dvds, video games,(we are waiting to be able to afford tivo, my
dad has it and he records and then tapes things he thinks we would all like.)
It’s pretty frequent that all 3 tvs are on all day.
The kids don’t zone out in front of it, they are often coloring, reading,
playing, dancing, jumping on the trampoline, painting, building, wrestling,
building forts, eating, dozing, running…should I go on…the tv is there and
is another one of the hundreds of fun things that are at their fingertips each
and everyday.
The list of things that we have all learned from tv and movies is huge. The
discussions that have been sparked and lasted for minutes to months are
innumerable. Tha passions discovered, the humor that has be understood, the
words learned, the songs sung, the dances danced, the thoughts thunk….
whew….
I think the outlook of the parents towards tv will come into play alot during
this time, have you completely let go our your tv=evil thing? When you can enjoy
tv(maybe not as much as we do) I think you will see the benifits of your son
watching, and not look at it as something he needs to grow board of and out
grow.
***
This is a phase and they will grow bored with it.
Or not.
You may end up with a TV in every room like us.
And yet — life is good and learning happens. :)
Hint: Around here, the TV is never more attractive than the beach! :)
***
Sorry this was misinterpreted….I never said that TV was potentially
destructive (it’s actually not an issue for us)…or I didn’t mean it
that way. I referred to TV (or the excessive watching of it) as
something that some might see as “not so good for them” (the poster
of the original question had the issue)…I posed the question of
other things that one might need limits or (help me with a better
word here…) if they are potentially destructive or disruptive…see
my post “limits, was re:TV” …..would you call not letting your kid
to run in the street (dangerous), draw on your antique table
(destructive) or screaming while you are on the phone (disruptive)
limits or what????
***
It’s a phase, and they’ll grow bored of it—–but NOT until you lose your
fear of it. Your fear is emitted through your pores too! Not just your voice!
This is the deschooling ourselves that we talk about a lot. You’re going to
have to *believe* it’s not evil! Really.
I’ve been thinking about this all morning. There’s a conversation on the
message boards about tv too. There we’ve been criticized for being anti-book,
when actually we’re just pro-tv. We’re NOT anti-book—-in fact I’d guess ALL
of us are avid readers! It’s just that we don’t denigrate tv as evil and make
books “godly”.
It’s been called “book worship”—when the value of books is raised to
incredible heights. Books are no more, and no LESS, valuable in our home than
anything else. A hundred years ago, a book *might* be the most valuable
possession a family owned. I doubt I could even guess the number we own
now—and many
are in *anything* but pristine condition.
These days and times, we just have many more things that are just as
stimulating, as inspiring, and as thought-provoking as books. TV, movies, games,
computers—even our backyard! is often more stimulating than many books.
Also, for young children: I’ve seen a lot of clammer that young children
should not be exposed to tv or computers. I have a really hard time with that.
I read articles all the time about how bad they are.
Let’s say that everyone should have an apple a day—-that was all the rage
a few decades back. Apples are nutritious, crunchy, good for the teeth.
Problem is that the very young and the very old—and a few hockey
players—CAN’T
eat apples. No teeth. Applesauce is ok, but NOT as good as apples because it
isn’t crunchy, lots of vitamins are lost, you can’t carry it around, you
need a spoon, etc.
TV (and computers) is similar to applesauce, in that books are deemed better
(by somebody). But children, who can’t read, can STILL be wowed by so much
information, movement, songs, stories, math, science, history, geography,
philosophy, cooking, vocabulary….everything! from tv!
Even children who CAN read—as well as adults and old farts—-can absorb
SOOO much cool information withOUT books. It’s right there! Why does it come
across as evil? It’s just another way to gather information. And it’s
ESPECIALLY handy for pre-readers! They can pick up so many words and see places
they’ve never been, animals they’ve never seen.
How is this evil?
How is it even remotely bad?
As we get older, as we see more tv, it becomes just another source of
information and entertainment. My bee hives are JUST as fascinating—to me! But
to
a child, tv is often HUGELY informational and entertaining. As it should be.
Nevertheless, the facination often wanes as other things become more
interesting. My 16 year old (who spent 18 MONTHS just watching tv, sleeping,
eating,
and talking on the phone as he deschooled) now rarely watches anything but
“Whose Line is it Anyway” and maybe “Family Guy” (with his little brother).
He’s just too busy with his other interests.
It’s hard, with all the brainwashing that’s been done to us, to believe that
tv isn’t evil. There have even been several books written about the
*dangers* of tv. But when you look at it as just another
information/entertainment
source, it BECOMES just another information/entertainment source.
Back off. Watch *with* them. Pick up knitting or macrame if the sitting
bothers you. TV’s just another cool way to learn about our world. But you have
to
believe that!
Or fake it ’til you make it! <g>
***
Brainwashing by whom? The biggest mainstream source I can think of that has a
statement against tv useage is the AAP. They recommend no television for
children under two, and and an hour a day for those over the age of two. There
are specific reasons for that. It’s a scientific fact how television *can affect
developing brains. So why would the AAP come out with this statement regarding
television? Or a statement about childhood obesity, or how long a child should
sit in a car seat/booster seat? They are so politically motivated, that it takes
almost an act of God for them to add a statement, or to update recommendations.
Where is their bias? A singular book, it would be easier to say this logic is
faulty, or that logic is faulty. A website, same thing. Right now I am thinking
about my niece, and how they abuse television in her house. I would love to get
her over here, to play, and to BE a kid, instead of being plopped in front of a
tv by whoever the caregiver of the day is.
***
I think TV being considered bad is directly related to school and
homework and chores.
TV interested kids in a way their text books and reading assignments
could never do. TV was infinitely more interesting than taking out the
trash or mowing the lawn. It couldn’t be that school and homework and
chores were stupidly boring and time wasting and dull, so it had to be
that TV was corrupting otherwise decent kids into laziness and dismal
school performance.
After hearing it so many times over so many years lots of people accept
it as true. Experts tell us it’s true. They’ve studied lots and lots of
school kids who’d rather watch TV than do their homework. <g>
In the 1800′s when dime store novels first appeared they were evil, too.
They were corrupting young people to all kinds of wickedness. Some kids
even read dime store novels instead of doing school work. Shameful.
***
I can give a great adult example, if it helps! :-) My husband was
raised with no television (the whole “root of all bad things” train
of thought, too). He now is horribly addicted (in my
opinion)..spending hours watching the thing, ignoring everything
around him. Also, after all those years of no television, his parents
now have six (!) televisions between the two of them. They want to be
able to watch it from wherever they are in the house.
I, on the otherhand, was raised with a television/full cable/Atari in
my bedroom. Now, as an adult, I read constantly, am known for
teaching myself things and prefer to have the television OFF. LOL!
See the difference?
***
My husband was
raised with no television (the whole “root of all bad things” train
of thought, too).>>
I have the same end result you do, only my dh grew up with television,
computers, and game systems. Unlimited. I can assure you that it is not out of
his system.
***
My dining table is tiger oak and was a wedding gift to my
grandparents 100 years ago. I grew up dining at that table and doing
my homework there with my family around me. Laurie grew up eating at
the table and doing craft projects then later college homework. Lots
of great memories at that table. My grandmother, Mamaw, wanted me to
have that table and she presented it to me after Laurie was born.
There are also lots of scratches, a spot of glittery fingernail
polish from when Laurie was around ten and a cigarette burn put
there by Laurie’s aunt. The aunt tried to hide what she had done but
the kids never felt the need to hide marks. hmmmmm
The table is too big for my present house so my sister is using it.
Her boys are adding more scratches and more memories to it.
Mamaw loved nice things but she would cringe in her grave if she
thought I’d put the table’s perfection above the memories in those
scratches.
Some day I’ll refinish it (maybe), but for now I’ll enjoy the signs
of use.
***
I don’t consider everyday scratches or crayons marks and little spots
destructive…I’m talking about purposefully destroying
something…we have a similar sounding dining room table (oak, turn
of the century…18th-19th….used to be my in-laws) that has similar
sounding “life scars” (a purple marker that won’t come off, scratches
etc..)…this is no problem. I actually don’t really have a problem
specifically with my kids trying to destroy the furniture. I was
only using that as an example of something that might cause someone
to set a limit or a boundry with a child and I was just sort of
looking to see how you all implement limits or bounderies (or
whatever you might want to call them) when they personally apply to
you. I really don’t have a whole lot of things I’m NOT OK with. My
house is set up in a very child friendly way. I don’t have lots of
NO’s. I do have some…and I was just looking for advice on what
some seasoned unhomeschoolers might do and how they might term it and
implement it when they do. Origninally my post was “if it was
something that was disruptive, destructive or dangerous”….then I
was asked for examples…the examples I gave were just the kinds of
things that I thought some people might have issue with and might not
want their children to do. I was not listing things that I
specifically wanted help with…I just wanted to know what some of
you might do with something you DO have a problem with, KWIM? Surely
there are some things…I understand the concept of giving them a
world of choices and focusing on things they CAN do…lot of freedom
in my house….but surely there are some that are not OK because they
are dangerous, destructive or disruptive. I’m not going to give any
more examples because what I’m really looking for is what YOU would
do if it was something that YOU felt this way about, not just
solutions to MY examples. Thanks, I appreciate hearing about your
experiences.
***
I have a hugely introverted daughter (and I mean HUGE – my joke to people is
that I thought I was an introvert until I had a daughter) and a big
extrovert of a son. I do not view either as good or bad, just different
needs. I’m sure all kids have divergent desires and needs, but I find that
this huge one sets us up, more and more now for conflict as my son gets
older and is discovering his little self and is not so happy to just go
along with what big sister (whom he adores) does. This was a conflict
originally when he was just a baby. We used to call him “outdoor boy” and
joke that he would love to live outside in a tent – walking him outside at
night was the only way we could get him to sleep when he was overtired for a
really long time, and there were many times where he was screaming at the
top of his lungs when he was inside and calm as anything the moment you
stepped out the door with him. My daughter on the other hand is a huge
homebody also from birth (I used to marvel that she would be perfectly
content staying in the house all day as a baby). She goes through cycles of
wanting to go out for specific things, but is otherwise not just content or
preferent to be at home but “No way am I going out!” hide under the bed,
feels very strongly she’s not going out the door no how no way. I went
through wondering what the “problem” was. Now I know and honor that this is
part of her.
When Nick was a baby and needed to be out and screamed if inside, and my
daughter, then only 2, was going to be screaming if she was outside, I
worked out taking Nick out in the yard with my daughter staying inside and
leaving the door open if it was warm weather and also bringing the baby
monitor with me and explaining to her that she called for me I would hear
her. It was not a great solution, and the yard got somewhat boring, but it
was the only thing that seemed to work. We have had many of these types of
conflict, although as Nicky (ds) has gotten older, he’s so attached to Aline
(ds) and in love with doing things with her that he pretty much seems to
decide on going along with her plans since he’d prefer to be playing with
her than anything else. So all has been fairly quietish until he turned
three and now that he’s 3.4 he still loves her but is getting more adamant
about his own desires and needs.
So I want to support them both and I’m only one person. Neither one of them
is much on planning for a different day when they can be split up with mom
and dad (plus both want mom), it’s a “now” type of thing. I am wondering if
other folks have come up against this type of thing and what you do? In
keeping with how we handle other conflicts, I am encouraging us to talk
about it, hear each others needs, and try to find agreements we can all live
with. Sometimes we can’t reach that point, and then it’s hard to know which
child to honor! If I do nothing to get Aline out on those occasions, then
Nicky by default is the one whose needs don’t get met. I try pointing out
to Aline that whenever she wants to go out Nicky is cooperative, and that it
seems respectful and fair to try to reciprocate that. This has limited
success with her – sometimes it works with a BIG push from me to get her
out. I should say that once she’s out there, she always has a great time,
although usually is the first one to be ready to leave (which I definitly
honor).
Ironically, and quite amusingly to me, she is the one who has been wanting
to go to Plaster Fun Time every hour the past 3 or 4 days (by the way I
found great stuff at Michaels – thanks to all who helped me find it here in
my backyard). And Nicky has started to go “No, I don’t want to go” which I
truly think is because firstly he is tired of Plaster Fun Time and she is
not but also because that is what he hears her do. We have managed to solve
this by agreeing to take him to Dairy Queen (his favorite spot) before or
after Plaster Fun Time so they are each “picking a place to go”. But it is
MUCH harder when Aline is the one who doesn’t want to go. I have definitely
taken this Plaster Fun Time example as a way of pointing out to her in a
very calm and amused sort of way the irony of the situation and so how
important it is for us all to feel the other person can sometimes go along
with the other even if it isn’t their own idea.
Anyhow, I am open to suggestions on how to handle this and would love to
hear how anyone has felt they have found good ways to handle similar
situations with their kids. Sorry this got so long.
***
First child – extremely extroverted and my second child – quite
introverted.
We went to homeschool park days and first child surrounded herself with
activity and people while second child went and sat behind a tree and
read a book, venturing out to play only with one or two kids at a time
and only for fairly short times. She usually came out to play
eventually, if we stayed a long time and lots of people had left so the
number of kids was reduced.
We went to hands-on science museums and child number one ran around and
wanted to see everything as fast as possible, while child number two
might spend most of her time there exploring one exhibit. The solution
is to go places that are contained – so the one kid CAN run around and
you can keep an eye on both of them. Couldn’t go places that were TOO
big for that.
When introverted child really wants to be at home, extroverted child
can invite friends over to play or go TO friends’ houses to play.
You just work it out – be creative and sensitive to both of their
natures.
***
My DD (3) is a highly sensitive child — loathes clothing, shoes, coats, and
being buckled
into her car seat; doesn’t like her hair washed or brushed, etc. She has a
hard time with
crowds, loud noises, lots of moving people or things (like bowling alleys and
stuff). She
gets aggitated around kids just playing with lots of vocalization and running so
even
getting together with other kids is sometimes hard for us because she just can’t
handle
the interaction. She loves playing with other kids though — she does great
with kids that
are more laid back, quiet and stationary. LOL If she’s not in that kind of
situation she
tends to lash out (hitting) and/or screaming a lot.
My DS is bored because he likes to bowl, go to movies, play with kids actively,
etc. I’m
having a hard time striking a balance for each child so that each of their needs
can be met
without overstimulating one and boring the other.
